Is the New Testament Fiction?
During the Facebook debate that I had with several belligerent Christians, I called the stories in the New Testament Fiction. Ignorant Christian Mike came back with the “Jesus Existed Argument.” Mike wrote:
“James, with all due respect, to call the New Testament “fiction” demonstrates a limited study of it on your part. The historical Jesus is well-proven by archaeologists and historians, believers and non-believers alike.”
This shouldn’t take long to tear apart. Even if I concede that Jesus existed, which I do have some doubts about which you can read here, it does not prove the Bible is fact. You hear this often among theists. “They found archeological evidence of places in the bible, therefore everything in the bible is true!” Just because a real place is mentioned in a story does not make it true. New York City is the setting of Spiderman. Does that make Spiderman a real person? The Iliad speaks of Troy, which archeologists have found, does that mean the Greek gods mentioned in that book are real? Of course not. But if we follow Christian logic who support that the bible is real because it mentions real places than we would have to believe Spiderman and Zeus are also real.
As for the truth about Jesus, according to Dale B. Martin, Woolsey Professor of Religious Studies at Yale, the best we can know is that ”Jesus was an apocalyptic Jewish prophet who was executed because (the Romans at least believed) that he or his disciples were making dangerous claims that he was the King of the Jews”
That isn’t much. But just because Jesus might have been a true historical person does not make the supernatural claims about Jesus true. We know that Abraham Lincoln was a true historical figure but I doubt that he was a vampire hunter.
A true study of the bible will result in finding out that it is indeed fiction, perhaps inspired by true (non-supernatual) events.
A good test on this one:
if there were no bible, would anyone think that a miracle working jesus existed? No.
Did he do anything in the stories that can be found today? No. He left no trace of his life… on purpose, so it seems.
Did he do anything which was radically before it’s time? No. He could have explained how to treat meat so you don’t get sick, or how to wash to avoid germs.
Is there anything that differentiates this story from other stories at the time? No. In fact Mithra seems pretty similar. The Jesus story has a lot in common with many other mythical gods.
Are there other claims from that time period that seem real but are not? Yes.
Does this Jesus story fit the patterns of other myths? Yes.
So, ask Mike what it is that makes him believe that there is evidence of this jesus in particular? What museum is it in? Where can we go on the web to observe this evidence ourselves?
I love your first statement. It is so true that without the bible, we would have nothing about Jesus. Good comment. Thanks.
Faith. Once a person trusts & accepts Christ as Savior, one becomes “saved, reborn.” Then, the Holy Spirit dwells within, leading and guiding you. You truly become a new creation, from within. Then, faith. Faith in God, Gods’ Word.
How do you know this? Can you prove this? What are you basing this on? There is no evidence to support why you would believe such nonsense.
Again, its faith. No, not everyone will believe. We don’t see the wind, but we can feel it. Once a person is reborn, you know as certainly as you can feel the wind, that Gods’ Holy Spirit dwells within you. I don’t expect to change your mind but just because not everyone believes, doesn’t mean it isn’t real.
Wind can be scientifically measured. We know it exists. It isn’t a leap of faith to believe in wind. Epic fail on your analogy. You have no evidence of this “holy spirit.” There is no reason to believe that nonsense. I could easily say the little green fairy dwells in you with as much proof as you offer me. It isn’t real unless you can prove it is real. Otherwise it can be dismissed. Try again.
Only when you are willing to accept Christ as your Savior, having the Holy Spirit dwelling within you, will you and others who share your logic truly believe. I don’t expect to convince you or anyone else. Faith is believing without proof. However- I am intrigued…. how do you believe that all creation, including life, began? How do you believe the first existence of life began; moreover, the first created spot of anything was formed? What causes a living body to function; what happens when life ceases? What causes decomposition? BTW…I do atleast thank you for this discussion. Most people just curse alot…then leave. That helps no one. RSVP, please.
Let me simplify this. You are delving into what I call “the god of the gaps.” I believe science explains a lot about life and death. I will admit that science and I do not have all the answers. But the difference between you and I is that I am willing to say, “I don’t know” where you say “God did it.” The gaps in our current knowledge do not need to filled with make-believe and fairy tales. They need to be filled with more knowledge–scientific knowledge. I don’t fill the gaps in my knowledge with a god. That is what a theist does. I don’t know therefore god did it does not work for me. Ancient people used to think lighting and thunder was GOD and he was angry. It’s the same thing to say that we don’t know everything about the origin of life and that means it was god. Just as we found out the scientific reasons behind lightning and thunder, in time we will discover the origins of life with science. Moreso than we have now–but we do have a lot of knowledge already about it. The more we learn the less we need a big sky daddy.
Shari, I also want to add that I was a Christian. I did accept Christ as my savior. I believed the Holy Spirit dwelled in me. Most atheists used to be very devoted Christians before we woke up. So telling an atheist who was a former Christian that “once you accept Christ” you’ll get it is a waste of time because we did that. It isn’t true. I’ll also add that muslims have the same feeling about their god dwelling in them, as do all other beliefs in god that are not Jesus.